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	<title>Comments on: New Paper on Hadrons and Koide&#8217;s mass formula</title>
	<atom:link href="http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/new-paper-on-hadrons-and-koides-mass-formula/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/new-paper-on-hadrons-and-koides-mass-formula/</link>
	<description>I will publish the unified field theory before 10^18 seconds are up.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 02:03:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: The Proton Spin Puzzle &#171; Mass</title>
		<link>http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/new-paper-on-hadrons-and-koides-mass-formula/#comment-6468</link>
		<dc:creator>The Proton Spin Puzzle &#171; Mass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/?p=938#comment-6468</guid>
		<description>[...] In the comments, Rhys has recently been complaining that my quark color potential in the Koide Hadrons paper breaks SU(3). Note that section 3.4 of the above paper is on that subject. Possibly related posts: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] In the comments, Rhys has recently been complaining that my quark color potential in the Koide Hadrons paper breaks SU(3). Note that section 3.4 of the above paper is on that subject. Possibly related posts: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: carlbrannen</title>
		<link>http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/new-paper-on-hadrons-and-koides-mass-formula/#comment-6460</link>
		<dc:creator>carlbrannen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/?p=938#comment-6460</guid>
		<description>Asymptotic freedom means that as far as the color force goes, the quarks are essentially free particles at very short distances. Read the wiki article. &quot;Free particle&quot; means that there is no color force. Consequently, electric forces cannot be ignored. Hence exact SU(3) cannot realistically be used for modeling exact quark potentials. Go look in the phenomenological literature you will see that they use a combination of an electric coulomb potential (1/r) and a linear quark potential (proportional to r).

Just because the SU(3) force is a perfect symmetry doesn&#039;t mean that the particles that suffer it are perfect SU(3) particles. They have other quantum numbers and forces that are not SU(3) symmetric and those other forces contribute to bound states.

I submitted the paper to Phys Math Central. The referees did not complain about the potential. They complained that the paper wasn&#039;t connected to the other results known on quarks and consequently wouldn&#039;t be an advance in the field. So I decided to write another paper that would more directly tie in with what was known. That is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.brannenworks.com/Gravity/spinpath1209.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Spin Path Integrals and Generations&lt;/a&gt;, which was submitted to Foundations of Physics earlier this month and is now in review.

In particle physics, one often finds that there are multiple ways of looking at something that seem to be entirely unrelated but actually have deep connections. What I am doing is of this nature. Instead of examining things from the point of view of position and momentum I&#039;m looking at the particles as if the interaction occurred at only a single point. This gives an approximation that is dual to the usual one. They&#039;re related approximations, but not as one being an improvement to the accuracy of the other.

The usual approx. is most accurate for heavy quarks at low energies. Mine is most accurate for energetic light quarks. But from the referee reports I didn&#039;t see how I could argue this with them. All they wanted to talk about was how quarks are modeled using the usual ways. I decided that I needed to put a more fundamental paper in the literature showing that this was a natural thing to do, hence the FoP paper.

Difficulty in publishing is natural for ground breaking papers. There are plenty of examples. I&#039;ve barely started to try to get this published.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Asymptotic freedom means that as far as the color force goes, the quarks are essentially free particles at very short distances. Read the wiki article. &#8220;Free particle&#8221; means that there is no color force. Consequently, electric forces cannot be ignored. Hence exact SU(3) cannot realistically be used for modeling exact quark potentials. Go look in the phenomenological literature you will see that they use a combination of an electric coulomb potential (1/r) and a linear quark potential (proportional to r).</p>
<p>Just because the SU(3) force is a perfect symmetry doesn&#8217;t mean that the particles that suffer it are perfect SU(3) particles. They have other quantum numbers and forces that are not SU(3) symmetric and those other forces contribute to bound states.</p>
<p>I submitted the paper to Phys Math Central. The referees did not complain about the potential. They complained that the paper wasn&#8217;t connected to the other results known on quarks and consequently wouldn&#8217;t be an advance in the field. So I decided to write another paper that would more directly tie in with what was known. That is <a href="http://www.brannenworks.com/Gravity/spinpath1209.pdf" rel="nofollow">Spin Path Integrals and Generations</a>, which was submitted to Foundations of Physics earlier this month and is now in review.</p>
<p>In particle physics, one often finds that there are multiple ways of looking at something that seem to be entirely unrelated but actually have deep connections. What I am doing is of this nature. Instead of examining things from the point of view of position and momentum I&#8217;m looking at the particles as if the interaction occurred at only a single point. This gives an approximation that is dual to the usual one. They&#8217;re related approximations, but not as one being an improvement to the accuracy of the other.</p>
<p>The usual approx. is most accurate for heavy quarks at low energies. Mine is most accurate for energetic light quarks. But from the referee reports I didn&#8217;t see how I could argue this with them. All they wanted to talk about was how quarks are modeled using the usual ways. I decided that I needed to put a more fundamental paper in the literature showing that this was a natural thing to do, hence the FoP paper.</p>
<p>Difficulty in publishing is natural for ground breaking papers. There are plenty of examples. I&#8217;ve barely started to try to get this published.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhys</title>
		<link>http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/new-paper-on-hadrons-and-koides-mass-formula/#comment-6458</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 13:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/?p=938#comment-6458</guid>
		<description>Nothing can violate colour SU(3) unless you want to throw QCD away altogether, and you would need a damn good reason for doing that.  And I&#039;m not sure why you&#039;re mentioning asymptotic freedom; quantities like hadron masses depend on the (strongly coupled) IR behaviour of the theory.

Did you end up submitting the paper?  What did the referees&#039; reports say?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing can violate colour SU(3) unless you want to throw QCD away altogether, and you would need a damn good reason for doing that.  And I&#8217;m not sure why you&#8217;re mentioning asymptotic freedom; quantities like hadron masses depend on the (strongly coupled) IR behaviour of the theory.</p>
<p>Did you end up submitting the paper?  What did the referees&#8217; reports say?</p>
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		<title>By: carlbrannen</title>
		<link>http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/new-paper-on-hadrons-and-koides-mass-formula/#comment-6442</link>
		<dc:creator>carlbrannen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/?p=938#comment-6442</guid>
		<description>Rhys, I&#039;m not trying to &quot;approximate QCD&quot; only. It&#039;s necessary to consider other forces because of asymptotic freedom. I&#039;m trying to approximate all the forces between the quarks. This is limited only by Hermitian conjugacy. The non color forces do not change color and consequently end up on the diagonal of V, which destroys its perfect SU(3) symmetry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rhys, I&#8217;m not trying to &#8220;approximate QCD&#8221; only. It&#8217;s necessary to consider other forces because of asymptotic freedom. I&#8217;m trying to approximate all the forces between the quarks. This is limited only by Hermitian conjugacy. The non color forces do not change color and consequently end up on the diagonal of V, which destroys its perfect SU(3) symmetry.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhys</title>
		<link>http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/new-paper-on-hadrons-and-koides-mass-formula/#comment-6438</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/?p=938#comment-6438</guid>
		<description>Colour SU(3) is not just a symmetry of perturbation theory.  If you&#039;re trying to approximate QCD, you can&#039;t just ignore it as you have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Colour SU(3) is not just a symmetry of perturbation theory.  If you&#8217;re trying to approximate QCD, you can&#8217;t just ignore it as you have.</p>
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		<title>By: carlbrannen</title>
		<link>http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/new-paper-on-hadrons-and-koides-mass-formula/#comment-6437</link>
		<dc:creator>carlbrannen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/?p=938#comment-6437</guid>
		<description>Rhys,  yes, the restriction to SU(3) would give you a V which would have to be a constant times the identity matrix. [edit: not quite true, see next comments] The constant would be called the &quot;strong coupling constant&quot;.

The &quot;color matrix&quot; V is an abbreviation for a lot of complicated stuff. For an example of this, see the first equation on page (4) of &lt;a href=&quot;&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Statistical Mechanics of semi-classical colored Objects&lt;/a&gt; Phys.Lett. B478 (2000) 161-171.

In their paper, they&#039;re interested in the interaction energy between quarks and so they pay attention only to the alpha and beta indices. My model is keeping track of the beta and beta&#039; indices only, that is, just one of the quarks. This is in analogy to how you model a 2-body interaction by keeping track of the difference between positions of the two bodies, rather than both sets of individual positions. If you know that the color of one quark is &quot;red&quot;, then by color neutrality you know that the color of the other quark, plus free gluons, is &quot;anti-red&quot;.

Their paper assumes a simple interaction with a single gluon, so they don&#039;t have as many arbitrary parameters and can evaluate the color matrix from perturbation theory. See their table on top of page 4. But I&#039;m interested in the exact non perturbational theory (which cannot be calculated) so I have to assume a more arbitrary potential.

But even an arbitrary interaction needs to be assembled from stuff that treats the three possible quark colors equally. That&#039;s not a general symmetry of SU(3) perturbation theory; it&#039;s a symmetry of the three states in the &quot;3&quot; irrep of SU(3). It&#039;s a statement about how very complicated non perturbational amplitudes must depend on color.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rhys,  yes, the restriction to SU(3) would give you a V which would have to be a constant times the identity matrix. [edit: not quite true, see next comments] The constant would be called the &#8220;strong coupling constant&#8221;.</p>
<p>The &#8220;color matrix&#8221; V is an abbreviation for a lot of complicated stuff. For an example of this, see the first equation on page (4) of <a href="" rel="nofollow">Statistical Mechanics of semi-classical colored Objects</a> Phys.Lett. B478 (2000) 161-171.</p>
<p>In their paper, they&#8217;re interested in the interaction energy between quarks and so they pay attention only to the alpha and beta indices. My model is keeping track of the beta and beta&#8217; indices only, that is, just one of the quarks. This is in analogy to how you model a 2-body interaction by keeping track of the difference between positions of the two bodies, rather than both sets of individual positions. If you know that the color of one quark is &#8220;red&#8221;, then by color neutrality you know that the color of the other quark, plus free gluons, is &#8220;anti-red&#8221;.</p>
<p>Their paper assumes a simple interaction with a single gluon, so they don&#8217;t have as many arbitrary parameters and can evaluate the color matrix from perturbation theory. See their table on top of page 4. But I&#8217;m interested in the exact non perturbational theory (which cannot be calculated) so I have to assume a more arbitrary potential.</p>
<p>But even an arbitrary interaction needs to be assembled from stuff that treats the three possible quark colors equally. That&#8217;s not a general symmetry of SU(3) perturbation theory; it&#8217;s a symmetry of the three states in the &#8220;3&#8243; irrep of SU(3). It&#8217;s a statement about how very complicated non perturbational amplitudes must depend on color.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhys</title>
		<link>http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/new-paper-on-hadrons-and-koides-mass-formula/#comment-6312</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/?p=938#comment-6312</guid>
		<description>I think I was being a bit silly.  The condition following from your equation 15 is that V&#124;abc&gt; transforms the same way as &#124;abc&gt; under SU(3) rotations (I don&#039;t like your notation, but I&#039;ll use it here).  This means that V must transform as V -&gt; U V U^(-1) when &#124;abc&gt; -&gt; U&#124;abc&gt;.

But these transformations, for U in SU(3), don&#039;t preserve the &quot;one-circulant&quot; property of V which you claim is required.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I was being a bit silly.  The condition following from your equation 15 is that V|abc&gt; transforms the same way as |abc&gt; under SU(3) rotations (I don&#8217;t like your notation, but I&#8217;ll use it here).  This means that V must transform as V -&gt; U V U^(-1) when |abc&gt; -&gt; U|abc&gt;.</p>
<p>But these transformations, for U in SU(3), don&#8217;t preserve the &#8220;one-circulant&#8221; property of V which you claim is required.</p>
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		<title>By: carlbrannen</title>
		<link>http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/new-paper-on-hadrons-and-koides-mass-formula/#comment-6306</link>
		<dc:creator>carlbrannen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/?p=938#comment-6306</guid>
		<description>Rhys, if the three eigenvectors corresponded to red, green, and blue, then sure enough they would have identical eigenvalues. However, colored particles don&#039;t exist in nature as independent particles so that wouldn&#039;t be very physical.

Instead, the matrix is for the interaction between three colored particles. Its eigenvectors correspond to different ways of mixing colored quarks. The three solutions all have equal amplitudes and so the three solutions each correspond to one red quark, one green, and one blue. This is neutral in color, which is okay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rhys, if the three eigenvectors corresponded to red, green, and blue, then sure enough they would have identical eigenvalues. However, colored particles don&#8217;t exist in nature as independent particles so that wouldn&#8217;t be very physical.</p>
<p>Instead, the matrix is for the interaction between three colored particles. Its eigenvectors correspond to different ways of mixing colored quarks. The three solutions all have equal amplitudes and so the three solutions each correspond to one red quark, one green, and one blue. This is neutral in color, which is okay.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhys</title>
		<link>http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/new-paper-on-hadrons-and-koides-mass-formula/#comment-6287</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 06:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/?p=938#comment-6287</guid>
		<description>Do you really want to throw SU(3) colour symmetry out the window?  If not, your matrix in equation 16 must have three identical eigenvalues i.e. s=0, and it is just a multiple of the identity matrix.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you really want to throw SU(3) colour symmetry out the window?  If not, your matrix in equation 16 must have three identical eigenvalues i.e. s=0, and it is just a multiple of the identity matrix.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/new-paper-on-hadrons-and-koides-mass-formula/#comment-5099</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 02:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlbrannen.wordpress.com/?p=938#comment-5099</guid>
		<description>In geometric units, the e, u, t masses sum to &quot;6&quot;, or 3.3569994E-027 kg = M_leptons

M_leptons * c / 2pi = 1.6017399 E-019 = e_lep

e_lep /elem. chg = .999728

If this is more than a coincidence, that means charge has dimensions of momentum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In geometric units, the e, u, t masses sum to &#8220;6&#8243;, or 3.3569994E-027 kg = M_leptons</p>
<p>M_leptons * c / 2pi = 1.6017399 E-019 = e_lep</p>
<p>e_lep /elem. chg = .999728</p>
<p>If this is more than a coincidence, that means charge has dimensions of momentum.</p>
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